Air Scouts B-17G, Paducah, KY 1946 CONFIRMED!!!

[Chris Brame]

Hi Scott,
My Aunt Doris found this photo of the B-17G that was donated to the Air Scouts in Paducah, KY in 1946:



My dad said that two local pilots picked it up at a depot in Memphis, Tennessee (edit: Nope - Walnut Ridge) and flew it back to the Paducah airport, took out the batteries and left it for the Air Scouts to use as a teaching tool/clubhouse. He "flew" his share of missions in it before he joined the Air Force in 1947. By around 1949 or 1950 it was gone.

Looking closely at the photo, it looks like the cheek gun position is missing on the starboard side, but the chin and top turrets are intact.

I hope someone can add details to this (like the serial, of course!). Maybe someone knows something more about the depot in Memphis? Over to you...

[DryMartini]

Chris,
I don't know anything about that bird, but I find
it interesting that there is a similar story from
Rockford, Ill., where there were (supposedly)
two fuselages used as cub scout play houses.
After a few years, they were (again supposedly)
buried.

[aerovin2]

Chris,

Thanks for posting the photo. You've inspired me to add a B-17 Listing to my page showing all these RFC/WAA B-17s...or at least the ones we know about. It should grow with new information. Look for it in the next week or so.

[jmkendal]

Scott,

Does the National Archives have the RFC/WAA records?

If they do, are the donation birds in a seperate series, or; do you have to go through all the records, line by line.

Joe

[aerovin2]

In my experience, and that of other excellent researchers, is that, for the National Archives:

1) Most of the RFC/WAA records were lost in a fire many years ago.

2) The remaining records have little on aircraft disposal (remembering that aircraft disposal was only a very small part of the RFC/WAA disposal process).

3) After many years of work by many people, no listing of aircraft transfered for educational or memorial use has been located.

4) There are no comprehensive files on any such transfers.

Now, saying all this, it is possible that if you spent a month of Sundays at the Archives in Washington, or Suitland, Maryland, or any of a number of Record storage centers around the country, you might find the box that contains such records. I would not be surprised but much effort has been expended by many people to find such a box. No luck.

[aerovin2]

Okay, I was inspired quickly. Here is the page posted:

http://www.aerovintage.com//RFC_B17.htm

Thanks again, Chris, for getting me to move forward on this. Coming soon: an update to B-25 and B-17 News.

I'd appreciate any comments and or additions, to this listing.

[Chris Brame]

And thank you for the RFC page! Very interesting stuff. I've sent an email to the human interest editor at the Paducah Sun requesting information, with a link to the page; will keep you posted.

[Chris Brame]

I have a possible hit on the serial number; 42-102834. (Edit: Again, nope.) Based on Baugher's listings there were only two B-17s that went through the RFC at Memphis (which is where the Paducah plane came from), this one and 42-102510, which came through in '47. I've ordered the record card on 834 to see what it says. I'll let you know when I get it.

[aerovin2]

This thread is back from the dead. I look forward to what you find.

[Chris Brame]

OK, got the card today. Here are the scans:


It spent most of its time at Drew and MacDill, but it did end up at Memphis. If anyone could translate at least the last parts I'd appreciate it. I notice there's nothing about the RFC, but what is ASF? (Air Scouts?)

ASF 7-31-6 per SU-A-135

[aerovin2]

According to the definitive source (Robert Mann's Aircraft Record Cards of the United States Air Force), "ASF" is Army Service Forces, to which this aircraft was evidently transferred on 7/31/46. Unfortunately, this is not a definitive disposition of the aircraft as it is anyone's guess whether this indicates a transfer of jurisdiction to then allow a transfer to the BSA. Usually, these types of transfers for memorial or educational purposes went through the RFC.

[Chris Brame]

Just got back from the last few days in Paducah with my folks, and while there, I spent several hours at the library trying to find more info on this elusive B-17.
Well, I got more info - but it's one step forward and one step back.




You can imagine my chagrin as I zoomed in on the microfilm image and looked at the tail number - "Two-One-Zero... aargh!"

As the article mentions, the plane came from Walnut Ridge, not Memphis as my dad thought. That and the date mean it's NOT 42-102834 as I'd thought (although it's at least in the 42-10xxxx range). Note also there are definitely no cheek guns, so this one would have spent its life stateside - the "flak holes" in the wings notwithstanding. Another clue is the "H" on the tail - Hobbs, New Mexico used that as a fuselage code, but was it a Hobbs tail code as well?

I also had a reunion with a friend of my late uncle; he told me the remains went to Tick Brothers, a metal salvage firm, which I just found out may be still in business - another avenue to check. He also said he might have a few photo leads. (He also showed me his airplanes - including four BT-13/15 basket cases... )

Over to the experts again!

[aerovin2]

That article is a real find and provides a lot of details.

A quick search of David Osborne's listing shows the following B-17s in the 42-10XXXX range that went to Walnut Ridge and it's last assigned duty station was Hobbs Field:

42-102866
42-102874
42-102875
32-102882
42-102886
42-102890
42-102893
42-102894
42-102898

Perhaps it was one of these. Until a side view of the airplane shows up, it appears to remain a mystery.

[Chris Brame]

Another piece of the puzzle drops into place. Looks like the Air Scouts' plane definitely came from Hobbs, NM:

From HobbsHistory.com, check out the B-17 in this photo circa 1945 - can't be the Paducah one since it has cheek guns, but note that letter H on the tail in the same spot. Looks like Hobbs changed the position of its field code from the fuselage to the tail later in the war.
So, it looks like it must be one of the nine airframes you mentioned, Scott - we're getting there. Not as big a deal as IDing the Mary Ann but just as challenging! Maybe now you can update the listing on the RFC page to 42-1028XX ?

[Chris Brame]

Thanks to Nick Veronico, I've gone through all the B-17 record cards for all the B-17G-60-BO aircraft that went to Walnut Ridge, and the ones Scott listed are the only ones that were at Hobbs.

Scott, did your list include the -50 and -55 a/c as well?

At any rate, the record cards on the nine a/c don't have any mention of the Air Scouts or Paducah, or anything special after "RFC Walnut Ridge".

One thing nags me: the statement in the "Cheek Guns" thread that all after 42-102800 had them installed at Boeing. Would that be still true if the plane were intended for being kept in the USA as a trainer, especially at a 4-engine pilot transition school? The Paducah plane doesn't have them, but all nine possibles are well past the 800 mark.

I noticed that three of the nine (882, 890 and 893) did get sent to Cheyenne for mods - can they be crossed off?

Again, over to the experts - I'm even going through old high school annuals to look for photos on the "candids" pages with no luck - but I did find a listing for the son of Stanley Pirtle; guess I'll put the word out to the alumni coordinator...