Aero Vintage Books

Or were these B-17's painted at the factory

an 8th AF B-17 in this scheme

No, there might have been some similarities to those early 97th Bomb Group planes, but the ones I'm interested in were over-painted in Hawaii.

This thread has been idle for a while so I thought I’d try to revive it by asking if anyone can help me answer the questions raised in this photo . . .



That’s the tail of B-17F 41-24403 – Blitz Buggy in the 19th Bomb Group and The Old Man in the 43rd.

You can just see traces of an earlier radio call number, 12413, showing through. So it has a replacement vertical tail section from B-17E 41-2413, one of the aircraft that arrived in Hawaii on 7 December 1941.

I know that 41-2413 was involved in a major accident in Hawaii some time after the Battle of Midway, but I’ve been unable to find the exact date or details of what happened. Although ultimately repaired, this photo indicates that it was initially used as a source of spare parts.

Anyway, 41-24403 got to Australia in August 1942. The tail section must have been replaced in Hawaii but I can find no evidence of an accident involving 41-24403 on its way down under.

Any details of the damage to 41-24403 or the earlier accident involving 41-2413 would be truly appreciated.

12434 at RNZAF Ohakea 15-20 July 1942.

LIFE photographer Bob Landry took this photo of General Clarence L. Tinker not long after his arrival in Hawaii in December 1941.

The B-17E in the background has been overpainted in what we’ve come to call the “Hawaiian Air Depot” scheme. Unfortunately there’s a lack of any supporting evidence that HAD carried out the work, so it may be safest to call it the Hawaiian Air Force scheme for now.

From the visible evidence, I suspect the B-17E is 41-2421. Freshly painted, these B-17s must have been something to see.

We know the Philippine B-17's were painted at Clark Field, - there was two in the hanger being painted at the time of the attack

What we do know is that the multi-colored camouflage was applied at Hickam Field, perhaps as part of a wider scheme . . . there's a description of a file box at NARA that intrigued me . . .

384.6 Report of Camouflage for Hickam Field, Oahu, T.H. by the Engineer Board, Fort Belvoir, Va., 5 Jan. 1942. Project Title "A Possible scheme for `toning down' Hickam Field," based on a Quartermaster Survey 1 Nov. 1939. Recommendation included using "Ground Paint" to simulate trees and ground cover, and that "the monumental old water tower . . . be demolished or definitely toned down."

Dana Bell is investigating whether the Corps of Engineers might be the key we're looking for.

terveurn wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 6:51 am We know the Philippine B-17's were painted at Clark Field, - there was two in the hanger being painted at the time of the attack

Several were painted at Clark, some arrived there already painted. Most remained in NMF. A few had upper surfaces painted at Del Monte including Ole Betsey(later the Swoose) after Dec. 8th but they were shabby paint jobs at best.

Another Hawaii D-model showed up on eBay; look close behind engine #3 and you can just see a camoed B-18 as well. Dated April 8, 1942:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/185553911887





I may pick this up and do a proper scan if the bids don't go cuckoo (which they usually do anytime I want something ).

Chris Brame wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:37 pm Another Hawaii D-model showed up on eBay; look close behind engine #3 and you can just see a camoed B-18 as well. Dated April 8, 1942:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/185553911887

Can we say posed photo... Look at that expression from the crew chief (M/Sgt) you can just see the grin as he is watching these idiots (two officers) carrying a 250 Lbs bomb.

I want to see them try that with the 1,000 piece of ordnance that is also on the bomb cart.

I think there’s a pretty good chance that B-17D is this one, 40-3060.



The bomb-loading photo and this one are two of a series of ACME photos released for publication in early 1942. The captions for the U.S. prints that I’ve seen are dated 7 March 1942, but I presume that’s the release date rather than the date they were actually taken.

Good luck Chris, I hope you get it. I presume that’s just easily-removable gouache across the top of the print?

Got it - will scan and post here and on Flickr when it arrives.

Speaking of Hawaiian Air Force B-17Ds, it appears to me that there were eight operational in Hawaii around the end of December 1941 . . . 40-3060, 40-3071, 40-3082, 40-3084, 40-3085, 40-3089, 40-3090, 40-3092.

There are still some questions about these . . . 40-3071 is regularly listed as destroyed on 7 December 1941, but it is clearly identified as the aircraft involved in a 5th Bomb Group submarine contact report dated 12 February 1942. Its ultimate fate is unknown to me.

Then there’s the question about the plane that went down with Captain Bill Cherry’s crew and passenger Eddie Rickenbacker . . . sometimes identified as 40-3089, but that plane was lost with 394th Bomb Squadron's Captain Quentin Birchard and his crew on 2 October 1942.

Finally got around to scanning what's probably 40-3060; B-18 in the bg has "305" on the fin, I think:

Thanks Chris, and yes, looks like B-18 37-305 in the background. Squadron assignments chopped and changed around that time, but 37-305 was flown by 1/Lt Robert K. Freeman of the 4th Recon Squadron on a patrol mission on 11 January 1942.