who was first, Mantz's TBM or a Stearman air tanker...?

A forum for things about Paul Mantz, Frank Tallman, and Tallmantz Aviation.
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JDDavis2
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who was first, Mantz's TBM or a Stearman air tanker...?

Post by JDDavis2 »

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The first fee-fall (uncontained) water drop ever made on a real wildfire is...generally credited to...a 170-gallon tank Stearman cropduster modified with a drop door, on August 13, 1955...however the the first TBM ever tanked, the Paul Mantz Air Services TBM-1C (N9394H) made two operational drops on the Jamison Fire (near Lake Elsinore, CA) on September 1, 1954, one year earlier.

Bill Larkins in the yahoo airtanker group, Jul 24 2014 "...Aug 13, 1955 is the accepted date because the (Stearman/N3N) Willows group has had all of the publicity...But it is not correct. The first drop on a fire in the United States was by the Paul Mantz Air Services TBM-1C (N9394H). On September 1, 1954 two operational drops were made on the Jamison Fire. I suggest that you read my 16-page history on the early development of the air attack system in the American Aviation Historical Society Journal for Fall 1964."

From Airtanker.com...interview with Frank Prentice - February 23, 1978 (one of the N3N/Stearman firefighting pilots) "I remember seeing Paul Mantz's airplane come in with the plywood hopper and a weather balloon full of slurry in its bomb bay previous to the first year we had the (N3N/Stearman) squadron."

...Whatever became of Mantz's TBM N9394H ?

From Airtanker.com...interview with Dale Nolta, November 15, 1977 (anouther of the N3N/Stearman firefighting pilots) "...This fellow was killed flying out of Porterville....flying for Paul Mantz...This would be ’58 or '59.
They told (this other TBM) to go into this fire from north to south, and he refused because of this big mountain ahead of him...so they said, "okay, circle"...they sent this other fellow out (Mantz's TBM), a first year pilot and he went in the way they told him to. Well, he crashed, and they figured out afterwards that when he tried to dump his load, the doors didn't open. His wings hit the trees first and then he plowed into a pile of rocks on top of the mountain and was killed. When the other fellow refused (the supervisor) sent in somebody else who would, a greenhorn who didn’t know any better...and of course, he figured he'd lose the contract for his boss if he didn't do like he was told."

(JD) The crash apparently was in 1958...in the FAA registry...TBM N9394H registration was cancelled on January 2, 1959.

N9394H was used as airtanker 1954-1958

1 ...working a fire out of Ontario (ONT) Aug 1957...taxing in with doors open, to replace the balloons and reload (wooden tanks)

2 ...SNA-Mantz 1958 with improved tank

(JD Davis photos)

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Last edited by JDDavis2 on Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: who was first, Mantz's TBM or a Stearman air tanker...?

Post by aerovin2 »

Good stuff. I'd trust Bill Larkins for the straight information any day of the year. Little tidbits like this make the forum worthwhile. Thanks for posting.
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JDDavis2
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Re: TBM N9394H for unknown movie ?

Post by JDDavis2 »

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Note "F9394" ID

photo source: Snappygoat public domain images

... JD

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Last edited by JDDavis2 on Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.
JDDavis2
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:07 pm

Re: who was first, Mantz's TBM or a Stearman air tanker...?

Post by JDDavis2 »

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... N9394H with the original plywood tank with doors open ...

...JD

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Last edited by JDDavis2 on Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.
JDDavis2
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:07 pm

Re: who was first, Mantz's TBM or a Stearman air tanker...?

Post by JDDavis2 »

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N9394H at "Operation Firestop" a 1954 research project at MCB Camp Pendleton.

Don Downie in 'AirPower' Sept 1992 said: "..a WX balloon was installed in each (of two 300-gal wooden tanks) to save making the tanks completely waterproof. When the doors opened, the balloons burst, providing the drop.
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Chris Brame
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Re: TBM N9394H for unknown movie ?

Post by Chris Brame »

JDDavis2 wrote:Note "F9394" ID.
I can fill you in on this one - it was the paint job used in the 1957 movie Tip on a Dead Jockey. It played a French "military pursuit aircraft" trying to force down Robert Taylor's Twin Beech:
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Images shot from TV screen - for once, they turned out decent. I'll do a separate thread with more info on the movie.
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