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2010 B-17 NEWS

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We're including this page as an update point for B-17 news. We'll post information garnered from any variety of sources, and notate that source at the end of the item. If anyone has anything they'd like to add, please let us know.

B-17 Tour Information

The Collings Foundation B-17G Nine-O-Nine, 44-83575 (N93012), is back in the saddle. Tour dates with the B-17, B-24, and P-51C, touring through Florida and the southeast are posted. For the most current information, jump to here for schedule information.
The Commemorative (ex-Confederate) Air Force's B-17G Texas Raiders, 44-83872 (N7227C), is flying again as reported here and other places. Jump to here for the most current information but expect appearances in 2010 and maybe back into the ride program. See also this informative WIX topic.
The CAF's other B-17G, Sentimental Journey, 44-83514 (N9323Z), has no appearance dates currently posted. The Arizona Wing's page can be found here for the only Wing information posted for Sentimental Journey.
The Experimental Aircraft Association's B-17G Aluminum Overcast, 44-85740 (N5017N), has its western tour dates posted, beginning in the Phoenix area in April. Check out the most current information here.
The Liberty Foundation tours with this most recent B-17 restoration, Liberty Belle, B-17G 44-85734 (N390TH). The airplane has several dates posted for the near future. Check out the current schedule here.
The Yankee Air Force out of Willow Run, Michigan, operates the magnificent B-17G, 44-85829 (N3193G), Yankee Lady. The museum is still reeling from the devastating fire that destroyed the hangar facilities but fortunately spared both the B-17 and B-25. Plans are underway to rebuild. The B-17 has no dates currently posted. Jump to here for their most current information.
The Lone Star Flight Museum's Thunderbird, 44-85718 (N900RW), based at Galveston, Texas, offers a ride program. The museum was devastated by Hurricane Ike in 2008, disrupting operations to say the least. The B-17 has no dates currently posted. Check out the schedule right here.

February 2010

Okay, to start off the 2010 News updates, the headline story is the sailing of the Swamp Ghost airframe from Lae, Papua New Guinea, on or about January 26, 2010, bound for an unspecified west coast (U.S.) port on the ship Pacific Pathfinder. Otherwise known as B-17E 41-2446, this airplane was released from the Papuan government after a nearly four-year international controversy kept it in storage in a Lae warehouse. The stated owner of the airplane is now Fred Hagen of Aero Archeology, with an agreement concluded (apparently) on December 10, 2009. After several studies and reports, it was determined that the transfer of the airplane was legal and authorized by the government of PNG. There is still bitter resentment among many of the principals in the dispute, at least if their quotes in PNG news accounts are accurate. Details of the December agreement reportedly provide for funding for a new national war museum and a full scale fiberglass B-17E replica of the Swamp Ghost for display at the museum. Here is a photo as posted on the authoritative Pacific Wrecks website showing the airplane being transported, presumably, to a dock for loading on the ship.

A search here finds the Pacific Pathfinder but not at a port in the PNG but it is in the area and ends up at Tokyo so who knows if that is the correct ship name and/or if it ends up in Tokyo, where from there? We will need to wait for details, or we can continue with endless speculation about what the plans are for the airplane. Time will tell, I suppose.
Just to feed speculation, I would imagine that once the airplane is somewhere on dry land, and detailed study of the aircraft condition will be made before any further plans are made. A flyer? Doubtful if that is possible unless much of the airframe is replaced, and then what do you have? Not much of the original airplane. Time will tell, I suppose, or do I repeat myself? So many questions, so few answers.
With this exotic B-17E in the forefront again, I should mention again the high quality Swamp Ghost DVD, which is reviewed right here. Good stuff and worth a purchase.
So, lets open the B-17 box now and see what else is going on. On the horizon is the Thunder Over Michigan airshow set for the weekend of August 7-8.

Sponsored by the Yankee Air Force at Willow Run Airport in Michigan, the theme for 2010 is Gathering of Fortresses and Legends. Notable to the event is that as of early February, seven B-17s have committed to attend the event. And, it would appear that teams from two restoration efforts, that of Desert Rat and Champaign Lady will also be on hand. No doubt there are other B-17 operators who might yet commit, so we could see a number approaching ten by August.
The year 2010 is the 75th Anniversary of the first flight of the Boeing Model 299 (July 28, 1935), so the B-17 design is rightly being commemorated. I, speaking for me, plan to be there one way or the other. Maybe a stowaway.
Not to miss the B-17 wagon, the EAA announced on January 21st that it also would be holding a bit of a B-17 celebration at Oshkosh (a.k.a. AirVenture) this year. Since the Oshkosh event is being held from July 26 through August 2, the prototype first flight anniversary date falls smack in the middle. A special evening show is planned for July 28th, plus some commemorative flyovers. The EAA is inviting any and all B-17 operators to the event. No numbers are available yet, but having the Thunder show the following weekend will help bring the -17s in, hopefully. Not cheap to fly a B-17, and AirVenture doesn't provide any fuel assistance unless you are a featured performer and/or have some special arrangement going. I, speaking for me, also plan to be there one way or another. Maybe a stowaway. Maybe a DC-3 pilot.
Because, it turns out, that Douglas and Boeing cleverly planned to make "first flights" of two incredible airplanes in the same year....the B-17 in July and the DC-3 in December. Those guys were pretty smart, planning wise. Anyways, the EAA is making a bit bigger deal of the DC-3 Diamond Jubilee, specifically inviting 25 DC-3s to participate in massed flyovers and another evening celebration. And a DC-3 I am privileged to be associated with is an invitee and should be there if the federal budget does not implode. No assurances there. I'd give it 50/50.
In any event, you can go even if I can't, and there is much more information right here at the AirVenture website. Cool.
Somehow it is symmetrical with history that with the 75th Anniversary of the first flight of the B-17, the Boeing factory building that produced most of the Boeing-built B-17s is going to be torn down. Boeing announced on January 13th that its historic Plant Two, better known as the B-17 Hangar, is to be demolished, probably in the summer of 2010 (irony again). There have been efforts over the years to preserve the complex, including a way to possibly move it and have it used as a part of the Museum of Flight. All for naught, apparently. The main reason is the complex is a cesspool of toxic waste from building B-17s and a whole bunch of other stuff. Chemicals saturate the ground from when they were disposed of by simply dumping....well, let's just say it was a different time. Boeing notes the following about the complex:

Location: On the west side of East Marginal Way South across the road from Boeing Field and backing onto the Duwamish Waterway.
Size: Four buildings cover 1.6 million square feet, about 36 acres. The main building was designed to accommodate nine fully assembled B-17s.
Production: During World War II, workers at the plant built almost 7,000 B-17 bombers as well as 380 DB-7 bombers under license from Douglas Aircraft. Other planes built there included Boeing's model 307 Stratoliner, the 377 Stratocruiser, and the B-50 and B-52 bombers. Also, the first four 737s were brought to near completion in Plant 2 before moving to another building.

So, another piece of history bites the dust. It should be noted that the Model 299 and at least part of the thirteen airplane Y1B-17 order were not built at this plant...they were built at Plant One (now part of the Museum of Flight) and barged to Boeing Field where they were assembled in a now demolished hangar on the east side of the airport (where FBO Galvin Flying Service is now located). Plant Two was, however, built in anticipation of the B-17 going into production.
Going along with the demolition of Plant Two is the little item that two of the Museum of Flight's airplanes are currently stored in the main hangar, those being a B-29 and B-17F 42-29782, otherwise known as Boeing Bee and also N17W. The Museum has to make some plans to move and store both airplanes (there appears also to be a Constellation in the hangar). All those in favor of storing them outside in the storage compound, subject to rain and snow and sunshine and acid rain to wreak havoc on paint and Plexiglas and fabric and metal, causing the airplanes to slowly deteriorate and waste the efforts of dozens if not hundreds of people over the past years, raise your hands. Okay, I thought so.
So, everybody needs to support keeping these airplanes protected until they can go on display. And, just to whet your appetite and to see what we need to preserve in its current condition, Kevin Kelly happened to be at Boeing Field the day the announcement was made that the plant was closing, so he scurried on over and was able to get into the hangar (not an easy task, or so I've been told) and shoot a few photos of said B-17F.

Some would ask (they always ask): Why is this airplane not flying? Well, mainly because the Museum of Flight has decided it is not going to fly, for various reasons (non-flying museum, insurance, qualified flight crews, visions of Stratoliners in Elliott Bay...not a Museum of Flight gig, by the way..., mechanical issues, etc.).
Okay, then why is this airplane not on display in the incredible museum? A tougher nut to crack, in this man's opinion. The Museum of Flight had its roots in the acquisition of a B-17, and the main display building was built to handle a B-17 hanging from the ceiling and/or set right square in the middle of the main display area. I think it is a fair question to ask why room for this airplane has not been made as the centerpiece. If there was no B-17 it is quite likely there would be no Boeing in its present form, and likely no Museum of Flight. This airplane should be displayed. The Museum of Flight is a well-funded museum by any measure and it has had big bucks for other projects and programs. But not for the display of the airplane that made Boeing and put Seattle on the airplane map. C'mon, get a move on, Museum of Flight people. The excuses are way past flimsy.
As a fairness matter, I'm glad to offer room right here or in the April update if a Museum of Flight people wants to explain why this B-17F remains in storage. Granted, only a select few read this stuff, but I'll make the offer anyways. Enquiring mind wants to know. Just let me know. Okay, one step off the soapbox; reserve the right to step back up.
It is interesting to note the folks working on B-17G 44-8543 (N3701G), otherwise known as Chuckie, continue in their effort to put a pathfinder radar and associated equipment back in the ball turret location. As part of that process, a K-24 aerial camera was recently obtained, in the original box, no less, for installation in the radio room. Here is a photo of the box it came in:

And here is what is in the box:

Some stuff will have to be fabricated to mount the camera, but it is all in an effort to recreate the radar and associated installation to match how this airplane looked while in AAF service. Thanks to Scott (Second Air Force) Horchstein for this information via the Aero Vintage Forum site.
Michael Yamada, who has contributed photos here before, is now having his photographer friends pass them along also. Michael sent along this December 2009 photo of B-17G 44-85784 (G-BEDF),otherwise known as Sally B, of the airplane in a hangar, presumably at Duxford and in for winter maintenance. Old Sally appears to have some new nose art or I haven't seen the updated one...a bit skimpier than before, eh?
An interesting photo was culled out of the internet by Steve Birdsall recently, and we went to work trying to dig out some more stuff on this airplane. The raw image, somewhat lacking, is held by the Southern Utah University Archives, and shows a B-17 with what appear to be D-Day invasion stripes. We requested a higher resolution copy and Paula Mitchell, the university archivist, quickly sent a copy along.

Yep, sure does look like invasion stripes on the wings, something you don't see too often. This airplane appears to be unarmed, save for a sole .50 in the left cheek window, and has the remnants of some tail markings. A closeup of the interesting area:

So, Steve went to work and comes back with:

This is 42-3354, Big Stoop. Assigned to 353rd Bomb Squadron, 301st Bomb Group on July 13, 1943, then transferred to 97th Bomb Group after 21 missions. Sent "to Depot" June 26, 1944 and finally salvaged overseas November 30, 1945. Her tail markings are 97th from the period prior to March 1944, but Fifth Wing was very slow to change in most groups. We know this photo was taken well after that.
I suspect the same aircraft, 42-3354, is shown in this series of official photos of General H. H. Arnold with Patton and Mark Clark at Castelvetrano airfield on Sicily. The 97th Bomb Group was called on to provide transport for the brass on other occasions, notably the Gibraltar meetings in November 1942. So maybe 42-3354 was performing a similar role as a VIP transport in the middle of 1944?

If they really are invasion stripes, it would date the photo after, obviously, June 6, 1944. Perhaps the summer or fall of 1944. So, there you go. All sorts of stuff out there floating around in cyberspace, and some of it is actually interesting.
Alan Doner sent in several photos, one of which is a particularly interesting photo of what appears to be an early post-war B-17G at a field somewhere in Europe. Conjecture only. The "706" on the nose is the only clue to its identity.

If it's part of the serial number, it could be 44-8706, a 305th BG airplane possibly used as part of Project Casey Jones to photo map Europe and Africa after the war.
That would tie it into another of the photos Alan sent in....this one showing several unarmed B-17s and veterans of the 306th BG (Triangle H), one of the two occupying Bomb Groups (305th and 306th) used to conduct Project Casey Jones.

The nearest airplane is 44-8772, a Vega built B-17G delivered in December 1944. It flew as Low and Slow with the group in combat, then went on to the photo mapping project. Most of the B-17s used for that project had their tails blown off by the AAF in late 1946 at Lechfeld Air Field in Germany, then sold for salvage to the Germans. This airplane may have lasted a bit longer, the record showing it being salvaged in Germany in mid-1948.
Speaking of blowing up airplanes in Germany, Dik Shepherd sent in this interesting photo, source obscure, date unknown, of what appears to be a field of B-17s in Germany having been disabled in a sad sort of way.

It may or may not be common knowledge that several hundred B-17s, mostly brand new examples culled from 8th Air Force replacement depots, were moved from England to Germany in the summer of 1945 to serve as part of the occupation forces, along with the organization of several bomb groups. Also moved were hundreds of A-26s and P-51s. They were stored at various depots for several years. When someone figured the Nazi's had calmed down enough, the B-17s were systematically disabled by setting charges off in their noses and/or tails, then giving or selling the scrap to German salvagers. I'd venture that this photo depicts part of that process. Interesting that one of the airplanes has its engines removed, the others not. The closest airplane does appear to be brand new, with only the basic AAF markings present. The A-26s were similarly salvaged, though it would appear many of the Mustangs made it through the refining process. Thanks to Dik for this little gem.
Got an email from somebody, the entirety of which was "There is the 452nd Bomb Group Association" which I took to mean I missed it on my B-17 Links page. No further information, so I'm on my own to find it, which I did, right here. Thanks for the heads up from the man of few words and the situation has been now corrected. Nice website, by the way; check it out.
UK Historian Neil Stevens passed along a pair of interesting photos depicting the remains of a Luftwaffe B-17 on a recently liberated German airfield in France or Germany, date and location unknown.

Neil tells us that these photos were taken from the collection of the late Joseph P Antrim of Chula Vista, California, who was Squadron Operations Officer of the 85th Squadron of the 437th Troop Carrier Group who flew from Station 469 RAF Ramsbury in Wiltshire in the UK and then from airfield A58 in France. Two 85th Squadron Code "9O" C-47's are visible in the background of the one photo.
The identification is tantalizing close, as these two enhanced and enlarged views of the photos indicate:

It was obviously a "G" series with the Cheyenne tail. Based on the above, the last three numbers of the serial (I think) are "827" and looking at the other photo, I suspect it could be either 42-37827 or 43-37827, both of which were lost in combat. The first was a 354th BG airplane lost on 4/13/44 and the second was a 305th BG airplane lost on 12/5/44. I will leave it to the experts to piece it together. Neither serial shows up on any list of Luftwaffe B-17s I could uncover, and both airframes appear to have crashed in combat vs. a forced landing. Standing by for experts with MACRs and things like that.
Speaking of unidentified Axis B-17s, Ryu Ito was in contact with me recently about this photo that depicts an unidentified B-17E believed to be taken at Djokjakarta (Indonesia) or Singapore. He is trying to learn more about this photo and the captured B-17s operated by the Japanese.

Mr. Ito writes:

I have a colour photograph taken in Djokjakarta (or possibly Singapore) showing a B-17E and Curtis-Wright CW-22 in a hangar during the Japanese occupation. The photographs came to light while during a totally separate research into the activities of a Japanese photographer who took the picture.
It was during my research into the location of the B-17E photograph that I came across your site.
I've also found reference from Japanese sources that a B-17E was observed at Bandoeng (possibly Andir) on 28th of June 1942. No photographs to accompany this information however. The B-17E in the photograph is likely to be 41-2471 since other circumstantial evidence and the diary entries for the 19th Bomb Group would tend to support this theory.

There are reports that as many as four B-17Es were recovered intact by the Japanese after the fall of Indonesia in 1942. This airplane might be one of them. According to the excellent Fortress Against the Sun by Gene Eric Salecker, 41-2471 was a 7th BG, 9th BS, B-17E that was "partially destroyed by burning at Djogjakarta 28 Feb 42. Found by Japanese after U.S. evacuation. Repaired and flown to Japan." The photo suggests that a name and/or nose art was painted out (under the nose windows) and a history of combat missions, kills, etc. was painted out under the cockpit. A cursory review of photos on hand doesn't match with anything, but these photos would have had to have been taken between December 1941 and February 1942, not an ideal time for photography for American flight crews. If anyone can shed light on this, please let me know and I will pass the information on to Mr. Ito and also post it here.
Of course, I did contact Steve Birdsall who is a great resource on early and Pacific B-17s. He checked his files and came up with a few clues, though nothing definitive. He did, however, come across this website with a plethora of photos of Japanese B-17s. I'd suggest anyone with the slightest interest in the subject take a look at the photos. The world wide web continues to amaze me.
Finally, Roy Long sent me an interesting photos for all you Y1B-17 fans out there, and I know you're out there.

This photo was taken by Roy's father, Roy Long, Jr., in 1938 at Langley Field. Mr. Long was an Air Corps 2nd Bomb Group crewmember on the B-17s and recalls that they were practicing night runs over Richmond, and the black you see on the bottom of the planes was a mixture of 'lamp black' and water. They would wash it off later. The photo sure recalls a time long past; much simpler, better for some, not for others.
According to my well-thumbed copy of Freeman & Osborne's The B-17 Flying Fortress Story, aircraft #51 was 36-156 while aircraft #52 was 36-159. No tie up for aircraft #53. You can't have everything. Update: Dik Shepherd passes along that aircraft #53 is 36-161.
Cool, cool photo. Where else you gonna get this for free? Ease your guilt. Buy a book.